Subject: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

From: "Posthumus, Etienne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:40:08 +0100

At various tech related library gatherings here in the Netherlands there
have been discussion about setting up a regional Code4Lib (or something
similar)
So as a start, if there any subscribers on this list who are in the
vicinity of Netherlands/Belgium and interested, please give me a shout.
 
We can then argue about a date/venue/agenda for an inaugural meeting.
 
Etienne Posthumus
TU Delft Library   -  Digital Product Development
t: +31 (0) 15 27 81 949
m: [email-masked]
skype:  eposthumus
twitter: http://twitter.com/epoz
http://www.library.tudelft.nl/
Prometheusplein 1, 2628 ZC, Delft, Netherlands

---

From: Ed Summers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:02:00 -0500

Wow, this sounds too good to be true. Perhaps this is premature, but
do you think there might be interest in hosting a code4lib2010 in the
Netherlands? (he asks selfishly).

I see you started a wiki page [1]. If at any point you want
nl.code4lib.org (or something) to point somewhere just say the word.

//Ed

[1] http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/NL

---

From: Eric Lease Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:03:40 -0500

> nl.code4lib.org (or something) to point somewhere just say the word.

I would be there in a heartbeat!

-- 
ELM

---

From: "Edward M. Corrado" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:07:30 -0500

I know there was a talk about a code4lib Europe in Portugal before. I'd love
to see a European conference, but I am a little torn between making it a
separate conference from Code4lib or as a location to host for Code4lib.
What do people think?

Edward

---

From: Jonathan Rochkind <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:12:45 -0500

I guess that would be ONE way of dealing with the audience for Code4Lib 
greatly exceeding the capacity of the conference.

I definitely couldn't get funding to go to the Netherlands.  But I might 
be willing to pay for it myself, since I'd like to visit there anyway. I 
guess February is probably as cheap plane tickets as anytime for there, 
weather's not so great.

But holding the main c4l in a non-US location is definitely going to 
greatly cut down US attendance, to those who are able to afford it. That 
may or may not be a good thing.

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886 
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

---

From: "Walker, David" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:11:15 -0800

Some of us can barely afford to get to the east coast of the United States, let alone Europe.  Not that you have to cater to us poor state university folk, or anything. ;-)

--Dave

==================
David Walker
Library Web Services Manager
California State University
http://xerxes.calstate.edu
________________________________________
From: Code for Libraries [[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Edward M. Corrado [[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:07 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

Edward

---

From: "Edward M. Corrado" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:21:12 -0500

I probably wouldn't get any funding either [1], but would still go. I think
Jonathan is right that it is a way to deal "with the audience for Code4Lib
greatly exceeding the capacity of the conference" but I'm not sure if that
is a good thing.

Edward

[1] I know I won't in 2010 as we've been informed no International travel
will be funded next fiscal year.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I definitely couldn't get funding to go to the Netherlands.  But I might be
> willing to pay for it myself, since I'd like to visit there anyway. I guess
> February is probably as cheap plane tickets as anytime for there, weather's
> not so great.
>
> greatly cut down US attendance, to those who are able to afford it. That may
> or may not be a good thing.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> Ed Summers wrote:
>
> 410.516.8886 rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>

---

From: Ed Summers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:23:23 -0500

> separate conference from Code4lib or as a location to host for Code4lib.

I think it's premature to worry about it, since there is no proposal
on the table. And if there were a proposal on the table, why not just
vote on it and not worry about making a rule about it?

//Ed

---

From: Ed Summers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:24:04 -0500

> Some of us can barely afford to get to the east coast of the United States, let alone Europe.  Not that you have to cater to us poor state university folk, or anything. ;-)

There are university folk in the Netherlands too right?

---

From: Jonathan Rochkind <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:46:14 -0500

Who's making rules?

It's bad to discuss things without your peers before voting on them?  I 
think it's a fine idea to discuss things before just blindly voting on 
them without discussion.  Leads to better informed votes, does it not?

---

From: "Edward M. Corrado" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:53:19 -0500

I'm not making any rules. I want an open discussion of the pros and cons. No
rules here.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <[email-masked]> wrote:

> think it's a fine idea to discuss things before just blindly voting on them
> without discussion.  Leads to better informed votes, does it not?
>
>
>
> Ed Summers wrote:
>

---

From: Ed Summers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:14:50 -0500

Conversation is definitely good. I didn't mean to dissuade anyone from
having it.

//Ed

---

From: "Stephens, Owen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:19:21 +0000

It would be great to see a code4lib style event in Europe - although  
if there is enough interest I would think that would suggest this  
could run as well as a US based event

I guess the issue is always to find people willing to put in the time  
and effort to do the organisation - if we've got that, we've got an  
event!

Owen

---

From: Eric Lease Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:33:24 -0500

> Netherlands? (he asks selfishly).

On another note, there is already a library conference that is apparently
very similar to the Access tradition and Code4Lib that takes place in
Europe, and I think it is called European Library Automation Group (ELAG).
See:

  http://indico.ulib.sk/MaKaC/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=5

While I would love to have a Code4Lib "thang" in Europe, maybe there is
something already in place. This year it is in Bratislava (Slovakia). Next
year I believe it takes place somewhere in Norway.

-- 
Eric Morgan

---

From: "Posthumus, Etienne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:28:52 +0100

While the enthusiasm is fantastic, I would like to say: "Hold your
horses folks!".
Let's see if there is any animo for local people over here to attend a
few regional things and get some momentum going before we can even think
of organising a conference.

That being said, if we ever do get a European Code4Lib conf off the
ground, it seems natural for it to be in addition to the 'main' one in
the US. That is the way that it works for the Python community organised
conferences Pycon and Europython, and it seems to work quite well.

Etienne Posthumus

---

From: John Fereira <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:31:06 -0500

> There are university folk in the Netherlands too right?
Definitely.  I'm currently working on a project in collaboration with 
the FAO and an international agriculture organization located at 
Wagningen University (an hour or so from Amsterdam) that is not all that 
dissimilar from some of the activities at Code4Lib.  At some point this 
year there will be a face-to-face meeting of those involved in the 
initiative (currently 7 of us, on four continents) so there would a 
remote possibility I could attend a European Code4Lib only because my 
travel would be funded by FAO. 

It's not just the smaller state universities that are being impacted by 
the economy.  I've essentially been limited to one business travel trip 
this year funded by our travel budget (at that's going to be Code4Lib in 
Providence).  I'm even on the planning commitee for a conference in 
March that I won't be attending due to budget cuts.  I was on a planning 
commitee conference call about an hour ago for that conference and our 
registered attendees number are less than half of what they were last 
year six weeks prior to the conference.

---

From: Ross Singer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:06:19 -0500

Eric, this is a good point.  I will be at ELAG this year, and I think
Ed Corrado will, too.

Past presentations look to be very in line with Code4lib and, in fact,
it was billed to me as "If you think of Access or Code4Lib but in a
scenic European setting with great beer then you'll have a good idea
of what we are planning" by Ron Davies, one of the coordinators.

-Ross.

---

From: "Hamparian,Don" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:03:09 -0500

Do you see any opportunities to partner with them for an European meeting? Or is that more trouble then its worth?

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Ross Singer
Sent: Thu 1/22/2009 4:06 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

-Ross.

---

From: "Edward M. Corrado" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:46:00 -0700

I really don't know much about ELAG besides I'm going there. I think
they have the program set, or just about set, for this year so I don't
know if anything could me done formally in 2009 but maybe an informal
thing could be arranged the day before or the day after? At the least
maybe contacts can be made for 2010?

Does anyone know more about ELAG?

Edward

---

From: "Boheemen, Peter van" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:24:32 +0100

It is good to hear people from the code4Lib community will attend ELAG this year.
We organized ELAG last year in Wageningen (http://library.wur.nl/elag2008/)
ELAG has been around for 32 years now and I have been visiting it for quite a few years now.
I think ELAG originated as a get together of the European National Libraries, to share their experiences regarding the relative new topic of library automation.
ELAG is a loosely organized group of enthusiastic people, like code4lib is. The conferences were a mixture of more and less technical attendants and presentations.
Besides the presentations of papers it always had workshops. You take part in one of the workshops. They come together on several occasions during the conference to discuss their topic. Each workshop presents their conclusions on the last day.
Some of us would like Elag to develop in an even more technical direction like code4lib. 
Last year we introduced Lightning Talks, which were received very well.
So please come an join us in Bratislava in april (http://indico.ulib.sk/MaKaC/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=5)
We will be very happy with your participation.

And for what concerns a Dutch Code4Lib group as Etienne suggested. I am all for it and may be we can ELAG as the European platform for code4lib like activities.

Peter

Drs. P.J.C. van Boheemen
Hoofd Applicatieontwikkeling en beheer - Bibliotheek Wageningen UR
Head of Application Development and Management - Wageningen University and Research Library
tel. +31 317 48 25 17                                                                                    http://library.wur.nl

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Code for Libraries namens Edward M. Corrado
Verzonden: zo 25-1-2009 2:46
Aan: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

Edward

---

From: "Edward M. Corrado" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:00:08 -0500

At the very least, the people who are interested in ths that happen to be
going to ELAG should get together at some point and discuss this. That said,
I don't think the Dutch Code4Lib folks should wait on ELAG if they want to
start planning something now.

Edward

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Boheemen, Peter van <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I think ELAG originated as a get together of the European National
> Libraries, to share their experiences regarding the relative new topic of
> library automation.
> ELAG is a loosely organized group of enthusiastic people, like code4lib is.
> The conferences were a mixture of more and less technical attendants and
> presentations.
> Besides the presentations of papers it always had workshops. You take part
> in one of the workshops. They come together on several occasions during the
> conference to discuss their topic. Each workshop presents their conclusions
> on the last day.
> So please come an join us in Bratislava in april (
> http://indico.ulib.sk/MaKaC/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=5)
> And for what concerns a Dutch Code4Lib group as Etienne suggested. I am all
> for it and may be we can ELAG as the European platform for code4lib like
> activities.
>
> Peter
>
>
> Drs. P.J.C. van Boheemen
> > Do you see any opportunities to partner with them for an European
> meeting?
> > Or is that more trouble then its worth?
> >
> >

---

From: "Hickey,Thom" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:27:11 -0500

I've been going to ELAG for several years, and the earlier
characterization of it as similar to Access and Code4Lib is pretty
accurate, although the presentations would typically be less technical
than a Code4Lib talk.

It varies in size from around 50 to 100 attendees, with often quite a
few attendees from the host country.  Last year was the 32d meeting, due
to a dedicated steering committee.  Topics center on practical
approaches to library processing with a core group that attends nearly
every year.

I think they would be interested in working with Code4Lib.  Usually by
now they have some idea where next year's meeting will be, but that is
normally kept 'secret' until the end of the conference.

--Th

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Edward M. Corrado
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:46 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

Edward

meeting?

---

From: David Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:51:51 -0500

> There are university folk in the Netherlands too right?

Sure.  Of course, having two conferences, one in Europe and one in North America, would make it easier for both groups to attend.  

But, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the C4Lib community _should_ do that.   I would love to go to the Netherlands if my institution could afford to send me.

--Dave

==================
David Walker
Library Web Services Manager
California State University
http://xerxes.calstate.edu
________________________________________
From: Code for Libraries [[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ed Summers [[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:24 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

---

From: Joe Hourcle <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:52:20 -0500

> vote on it and not worry about making a rule about it?

I'll go with law #5 on this one :

 	The library is a growing organism.

Whatever 'we' decide on the matter is a point in time decision, and 
doesn't mean that it'd be applicable even a year later -- membership 
changes, the world changes, etc.

It seems to me that the reason for limiting the number of meetings is to 
keep from diverging or diluting the main conference.  I'm personally of 
the opinion that these things getting too large is a problem, as you miss 
half of the sessions that you're interested in when there are too many 
running concurrently, and limiting the sessions limits the amount of 
information exchanged.

I would think that the question should be how to better share the 
information to those who aren't able to attend.  I believe there was a 
discussion of trying to get someone to sponsor video recording of the 
conference, but I don't know how far that went.  If video's too cost 
prohibitive, then audio recording combined w/ slide sharing might be 
enough.  (and I seem to remember that there was a protocol for syncing 
streaming audio and images ... SIML?  something like that ... circa 1999 
or so)

I personally would love to see more code4lib related events out there to 
make the larger library community aware that it's here. If someone wanted 
to propose an ASIS&T pre-conference session for the annual meeting in 
November, there's still a week left 'til the deadline;

 	http://www.asis.org/Conferences/AM09/am09cfp.html

-Joe

---

From: Etienne Posthumus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:52:55 -0500

Thanks for the reminder Eric. I couldn't see any info on this years
programme. Looking at last years site http://library.wur.nl/elag2008/ my
impression that it is less focussed on code, and is a little bit less
hardcore than one would like.

Will ask some colleagues who attended last year what they thought of it.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Code for Libraries [mailto:[email-masked]] Namens Eric
Lease Morgan
Verzonden: donderdag 22 januari 2009 20:33
Aan: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

> Netherlands? (he asks selfishly).

On another note, there is already a library conference that is
apparently very similar to the Access tradition and Code4Lib that takes
place in Europe, and I think it is called European Library Automation
Group (ELAG).
See:

While I would love to have a Code4Lib "thang" in Europe, maybe there is
something already in place. This year it is in Bratislava (Slovakia).
Next year I believe it takes place somewhere in Norway.

--
Eric Morgan

---

From: Henri-Damien LAURENT <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:55:18 -0500

> TU Delft Library   -  Digital Product Development
I would be really pleased that Code4Lib could be organised in Europe, 
not only because it wouldnot be so far for me to go.... ;)
But also because I think that it could move things in France.
My concern would be to find ppl willing to join this event, and to 
present something.
In fact, in France, ppl are not that used to presenting and sharing 
their projects.
There is even kind of a civil servant way of mind that your work is not 
yours but for the country and Culture, so you donot have to take fame 
out of it.
But Germany, UK, Netherlands, from what I know, are really proposing 
interesting things, and maybe organizing an event here and there on a 
European or wider base could be really valuable (And yes, ELAG, is 
"quite the same", except that the audience is not techies but more 
decision making persons as far as I know.)
I am French, co founder of BibLibre (www.biblibre.com)
-- 
Henri-Damien LAURENT

---

From: Peter Noerr <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:56:54 -0500

You can find out about the current (2009) meeting here (http://library.wur.nl/elag2008/elag2009.html). The program is set, but ELAG is built round workshops and it is probably possible to add a new one, even at this late date. Contact the program committee.
 
ELAG was formed about 25 years ago by people working for the national libraries of Europe and the larger universities who were all struggling trying to build library automation systems and facing a number of real technical problems. Its original aim was, and is, to allow exchange of techniques and experiences. Over the years it has changed as technology was developed, often by the E:AG member organisations, and the world changed. It has a meeting every year in a different location within Europe to encourage a wider audience and enable a secondary aim of education in each location for people who were not able to travel.
 
Peter Noerr
MuseGlobal
(ex British Library - founder member of ELAG)

________________________________

From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Edward M. Corrado
Sent: Sat 2009-01-24 17:46
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Dutch Code4Lib

Edward